Monday, May 28, 2007

Marathon Training Update

Less than three weeks to go for me (and Melissa & Jason)!
I peaked last week at 94 miles with a 21.5 mile long run yesterday. My body feels strong but I definitively felt tired in the last 2 miles of my was my hardest long run yet. The two others, both 20 miles, were tough but manageable.

Does anyone have any advice for tapering? I am thinking about the following for the next two weekends.
This upcoming week - day off, mileage at/around 65-70
I plan to run circa 15 sometime next weekend at 5:55 pace in the same flats I plan to run the marathon in. I'll probably start at Riley's Lock and run back to Old Angler's Inn. I could use all the help I can get, though the goal will be to simply feel comfortable...not "race". I may pick it up in the last 2 miles, but I don't want to stay fairly consistent. The other weekend day will likely be a 12 mile run. Maybe a team run at the store or the "Line"?

The following week - mileage at 50-55
I want to practice drinking water from cups and may simulate a marathon pace on the track while drinking every 2 laps or so for 5 miles. I won't be drinking a lot of water each "stop"'s more practice than anything.

Marathon week - 40-45 miles (including race)
Not sure if I'll load up on carbos or not. I posted on LetsRun and got various opinions on whether or not to carbo deplete or carbo load.

Let me know if anyone thinks any of the above good or bad...

Klim, the Red Fox


MAX said...

there is no good or bad. its whatever works and is working for BIG JAKE. if its working for you now then nuff said. Everyone trains differently and uses different methods appealing to the individual. there are hundreds of articles and such on this and everyone has opinions. at this juncture, money is in the bank and its time for some love.

you know your body at this point. for example, are you a natural endurace guy who can, through sheer talent, run many extra miles without effort(ala wardian) or are you a shorter distance guy who needs to really work to feel comfortable in the latter stages of long runs?

When i ran well last year i never ran more than 60 miles a week and only a few runs of 20 miles. however, i put in lots of intense 10 mile runs with Wilson and some faster runners and this gave me power and a strong will to push through, even when feeling like death was on the doorstep.

I have natural endurance and get stronger as the run goes so this is my makeup.

live and learn.

Allen Carr said...

Check out this article from running times about Ritz's marathon training. It has a couple paragraphs about tapering that I thought were pretty interesting.

Let me know when you are doing the 15 miler because I am running 15-16 for my long run this weekend.

KLIM said...

Thanks Allen...what's your e-mail? I'll send you an "official" invite. Glad to see you on the blog.

I can either run Saturday or preference. Might want to run a group run (12 miles) with the rest of the team on the other day. Jason, Matias, Joe? Anyone else interested in the Riley's Lock to Old Anglers run?

Wiggy said...

I think you have a decent taper plan in tact... You may not want to mess too much with the Carbo Load theory in your first marathon... If you do that half in the fall, that probably would be the best scenario to try something like that...
I am gone every weekend until after july 4th... I am doing a race in two weeks... haven't raced since penn relays.......
Allen, I don't know if you remember me or not but I went to JMU for my freshman year and transferred, I remember you coming on your recruiting visit... Glad to see you are joining us!

Allen Carr said...

My email is

I can do my long run pretty much either day this weekend. I just need to figure out how to get to that part of the canal because I have only run from the store.

I definitely remember you Joe, but more from the older guys telling me about people from before I got there.

KLIM said...

Damn you Joe...don't hijack my thread. This thread is all about ME!!!

(cough)...anyways Riley's Lock is at mile 22.8 on the C&O. That is only 10 miles from Old Anglers,so I think I'll run past Old Anglers and finish up 2 miles south of Old Anglers and then cooldown back to the parking lot.

This plan may amend a bit.

Havegoats said...

my two cents/ take:

I will be carbo depleating- but agree with joe, you may want to run one straight up.

Melissa- I picked out a pair of heavy flats-Nike Zoom Air. I've used a lighter flat for the previous 4 marathons, but with my knee now- gone with more cushion

I am starting to wind down too and feel pretty confident. Last year I ran 2:38 off 50-60 miles a week. This year I am more at 70ish, and my last 7 weeks have been 80, 92, 88, 92, 52 (sick/allergies), 93, and 93.

My peak days have been: 1/27 5k at 15:17. 2/10 10mile at 58. 2/17 10k 32:10. 2/27 track work 3 miles at 4:40. 3/11 14 miles at 5:45. 3/18 8k at 25:34. Rest period while overseas. 4/14 14 miles at 5:45. 4/29 10k 31:47. 5/5 10 at 5:55. 5/9 9 at 5:50. 5/20 14.75 at 6:00. 5/25 8 at 5:30-5:20.

Hindsight- while nice increase in mileage, no run was over 17 miles. I only have 3.5% body fat and when I go long, my blood sugars can drop real hard... if I don't want to lose too many days to recovery, I cap my solo runs. I probably should also do more speed.

Future. I hope this training results in a 2:30-2:32, I think I can handle 120 miles a week, and ultimately toss in those speed days. The knee has held up. My motivation to train again with a purpose is from a former rival of mine making the trials and so did a number of DIII guys at chicago. But, I don't know how many more year(s) I can devote to this before it becomes too selfish and foolish. I am excited to see what happens.

KLIM said...

Jason - you are in great shape. I think you'll rock that course.

I too have been re-motivated...ever since last July's Twilighter (26:42): the day I "turned the tide" and started to get back to where I once was. Ever since then the races/times have been fairly successful.

I echo the devotion factor. It's nice to "relax" a little now and not worry so much about high mileage in the past few weeks. Definitely mental (if not physically) for me. Though, Hudson seems to suggest to keep up the quantity, but bring down the quality. I start to dread running if I make it so laborious. I tolerate it because I know that it's only for a short time and that the "extra" work will make me much better. It's like working during the week so that you can not work on the weekend.

I did some calculating - I've been at 65 mpw on average during the first 20 weeks of this year. I was at 56 mpw in the last 26 weeks of 2006.

PS - my tix and Fri/Sat hotel is firmed up. If I can, I'd still like to take you up on your Thurs night accomodations - I'd like to pay my share and take the load off your back for that night.

Havegoats said...

not at all man. the place is yours. I would rather you get there and hold it down than the place be vacant. it is already paid for. You and melissa deserve a little nice get-away and a chance to check out the start!

Tyrell said...

Grandma's bound runner's:

It sounds like you are all on the right track. The biggest thing is to listen to your body and have confidence in what you are doing.

I have coached more than 500 people through the marathon and have coached runners at the NCAA I and II level and it REALLY DOES depend on what you're used to and where your capabilities lie.

It took me about 10 marathons before I found the groove of what works for me - I just finished my 36th marathon this past May and what I'm doing now isn't too dissimilar from what you're doing to prepare for Grandmas.

I am a firm believer in peaking three weeks prior to your competition vs. the two week taper. I do speedwork on Wednesdays and my last long run or workout is an 8 mile tempo (sunday, 6 days prior to your saturday race).

Grandma's was my first marathon and I didn't have any goal but to finish. It is a fairly forgiving course until you get into Duluth at Lemon Drop Hill - it's not that difficult, simply a hard part of the race to have a hill.

If you are racing, you must keep mentally strong over the last 10k. That is in fact the hardest part. I'm not a very fast runner (2:39 pr) but I believe that mental fortitude is much more of an asset than training. Be confident in your abilities, stay postitive, and keep your eyes focused ahead, do not look down at the road....

I have confidence in all of you and I look forward to seeing all of your successes. Stay mentally tough and reap the rewards.